Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
cmcheatle | Velvet Scoter (Melanitta fusca) |
Subspecies elevated to full level |
Aug. 14, 2018 18:42:54 +0000 | loarie |
see comments |
If you'd like to go ahead and make some of the common name changes, that would be great - I've already changed a few names (Gray Jay -> Canada Jay, Black-shouldered Kite -> Black-winged Kite, Australian Kite -> Black-shouldered Kite, and White-eyed Duck -> Hardhead), and at least a couple others have already had the new Clements names as the default for a while (Philippine Eagle and the two striped swallows), but there should still be a lot left to do. Thanks for helping!
Melanitta deglandi is the North American bird, yet most North American species are currently identified as Melanitta fusca. Although I have curator status I do not know how best to resolve this one.
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Oh, I see the previous thread addresses this issue. It would seem that it is a burden placed on the community to identify all our North American observations as Melanitta deglandi? iNaturalist is still claiming this taxon is native to Canada, though...
Scott or Max are the only 2 who can fix this. They need to create an atlas for each species and then I suspect the easiest option is for them to delete the deglandi taxa record there now, recreate it and run a switch.
There is no real value in going and adding id's to try and move the records, you will need a corps of people to do it.
Hi @cmcheatle —I didn't realize that was an option. Great.
The reason it is not worth pursuing adding ID's is it just would take finding too many people to do them. I'm actually the top observer of this species on the site. An observation of mine like this one https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/18810372
would require finding 12 people to add the revised ID of deglandi (fewer if you could get the original id'ers in there to do it). Better to let the automated process play out.
I'm not sure why this one got missed when the Clements 2018 updates were applied. I've directed this to Scott and Max to look at and hopefullt resolve.
Well, the disagreements will created anyway when they push the button on the switch.
I'm not sure why they have not processed this, it's the best part of 6 months now since the change was announced. The new one is active in there, agreed both ideally would not bem but in a sense, it is the right ID.
There's another example of problems with these pending changes that are not getting processed.
This is the new taxa that Mallard apparently will become after the Mexican Duck split:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/850855-Anas-platyrhynchos
Apparently I am the top identifier of this new inactive species, even though I've never entered an ID using it. What seems to be happening is identifications entered as Domestic Mallard are somehow showing up here. Goodness knows what they will become when this one is activated.
There are three taxa here M. fusca (sensu lato, Europe, Asia & N. America [EAN]), M. fusca (sensu stricto, [E], and M. deglandi [AN].
Currently both [EAN] and [AN] are active, which should never happen. They are reading as disagreeing with each other which isn't actually true.
@maxkirsch @loarie could these changes please be made? If that isn't practical right away, can https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/827373-Melanitta-deglandi at least be made inactive again until the split can be done properly?
Can i echo Reuven's request and please get this run. If there is some work or other holding it up that I or anyone can help with, please let us know, I will find time to do it.
I don't know how the data feed works or if it will get fixed etc - but we are now sending bad data to GBIF as well:
https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/340552
Please, please can we either get this run or the future one made inactive.
@maxkirsch @loarie Can we please get this done?
I believe I have successfully atlased the two new taxa, but please check as I've never used atlases before and could be doing something wrong. There will still be a small number of observations in Iceland and Asia that seem ambiguous as to which species they fall under.
So Melanitta fusca ssp. deglandi becomes Melanitta deglandi
and Melanitta fusca ssp. fusca and Melanitta fusca ssp. stejnegeri stay with Melanitta fusca?
Where's the boundary between the species ranges relative to the Melanitta fusca (sensu lato) range? https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/7032-Melanitta-fusca
just to be clear the steps here are:
1) split the Melanitta fusca (sensu lato) IUCN range into Melanitta fusca (sensu stricto) and Melanitta deglandi portions
@jwidness made a great tutorial on how to do this here https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/taxon-range-map-editing/146
(anyone can do this)
2) create an inactive Melanitta fusca (sensu stricto) unless it already exists
(any curator can do this)
3) add the new taxon ranges to Melanitta deglandi and Melanitta fusca (sensu stricto) respectively
(any curator can do this)
4) atlas Melanitta deglandi and Melanitta fusca (sensu stricto) unless they already exist
(any curator can do this)
5) create a draft taxon split with input Melanitta fusca (sensu lato) and outputs Melanitta deglandi and Melanitta fusca (sensu stricto)
(any curator can do this)
6) create a draft taxon swap for Melanitta fusca ssp. deglandi to Melanitta deglandi
(any curator can do this)
7) move Melanitta fusca ssp. fusca and Melanitta fusca ssp. stejnegeri from Melanitta fusca (sensu lato) to Melanitta fusca (sensu stricto)
(only taxon curator can do this)
8) commit the taxon swap
(only taxon curator can do this)
9) commit the taxon swap
(only taxon curator can do this)
If someone can answer my initial questions above I'm happy to do all of this
But if any curator wants to try steps 1-6 happy to answer any questions / provide more detailed how-tos
@loarie both output taxa have been atlased and this split was drafted months ago
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_splits/45717
maybe I'm not understanding the steps above, but do they really need ranges too?
They don't need ranges but my personal preference would be not to loose taxon ranges everytime species are split. remember we don't have to go with this split, we can deviate from Clements, curate towards Melanitta fusca (sensu lato) and then we could just keep the IUCN range intact. I guess ranges aren't as important for Birds since they're pretty well known. But in my opinion they're pretty important for mammals reptiles and amphibians (since understanding where one species ends and the other begins is such a nightmare) and there's a real cost to loosing them
Clement's is splitting deglandi and stejnegeri
The Clements list updates for 2019 are not published until August. While it is possible that eBird got a preview or similar, until it is actually in the public domain, I don't know we can take it as confirmed.
Besides, most of the 2018 updates were never applied, not sure why we should hold out any hope the 2019 ones will be done.
Alright this has been going on long enough and I want to get this settled properly. There are still some things left that curators can do (atalsing and range maps). I am planning to do this soon, and am posting below partially for my own reference. But if anyone wants to help, just let me know that you are doing so. Here's the situation:
Clements 2017:
Melanitta fusca, with three subspecies
fusca of Europe
stejgneri of Asia
deglandi of North America
Clements 2018:
Melanitta fusca
Melanitta deglandi with two subspecies
stejgneri
deglandi
Clements 2019:
Melanitta fusca
Melanitta deglandi
Melanitta stejgneri
M. fusca sensu 2017 is still active:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/7032-Melanitta-fusca
The three subspecies sensu 2017 are also still active:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/512853-Melanitta-fusca-fusca
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/512852-Melanitta-fusca-stejnegeri
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/336863-Melanitta-fusca-deglandi
A bunch of other taxa have been improperly marked as active. If whoever did this is reading this, please don't do this in the future. It is better to have an out-of-date taxonomic concept than to have multiple active taxa representing the same concept.
Active taxon for M. deglandi sensu 2018:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/827373-Melanitta-deglandi
And active taxa for both subspecies sensu 2018:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/827423-Melanitta-deglandi-deglandi
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/827422-Melanitta-deglandi-stejnegeri
Final taxa that we want to have:
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/144233-Melanitta-stejnegeri
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/7032-Melanitta-fusca
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/827373-Melanitta-deglandi
So what needs to happen is:
Taxon split of 827373 into 827373 and 144233 based on atlases
Taxon split of 7032 into 7032, 144233 and 827373, based on atlases
Taxon swap of 512853 into 7032
Taxon swaps of 512852 and 827422 into 144233
Taxon swaps of 336863 and 827423 into 827373
Make sure all taxa except 2033, 144233 and 827373 are properly marked as inactive, and that any other taxon changes have been cancelled.
To do:
Atlas all three species on the final taxon page
Range maps for all three species on the final taxon page
Create drafts for all the taxon changes described above (some may already exist).
Double-check everything!
Get taxon changes committed.
All three species have updated range maps on IUCN. Here are notes for making the atlases.
7032:
All of Europe including Turkey (but not Cyprus), Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Russia from Yamal-nenets to western edge
144233:
Russia from Krasnoyarsk to eastern edge, China, Mongolia, Japan, NK, SK, Taiwan, Aleutians West County (AK, US), Nome County (AK, US)
827373:
Cuba, Bermuda, Mexico, United States, Canada, St. Pierre & Miquelon, Greenland, Iceland, Kamchatka (RU), Chukot (RU), Japan
The following areas have overlap, from eBird records:
deglandi/fusca
Iceland, UK, Denmark, Sweden, Norway
fusca/stejgneri
Iceland, Ireland, UK, Denmark, Poland, Norway, Sweden
stejgneri/deglandi
Japan, Chukot (RU), Kamchatka (RU), Aleutians West County (AK, US), Nome County (AK, US)
Of these, Nome County is probably the only location where multiple species are expected. Need to check if the following actually matter for iNat: all European locations, Japan, Kamchatka, Chukot, Aleutians. If there are no iNat records of the vagrant species in these areas, we can automatically set them all to the expected species. Here is an observation search showing all current records of any of these taxa: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?taxon_id=7032,827373
@loarie any chance of getting this done? I'm starting to see more grumblings in the community (e.g. https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/velvet-white-winged-scoter-split/) and more and more people are going in and "correcting" IDs it seems, so we're getting quite a mess with records now. See:
https://inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&taxon_id=827373
https://inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&taxon_id=7032
If there's anything I can do to help, I will happily do so.
@rjq I've got ArcGIS here if there's anything I can help with. Shoot me an email mike.burrell@ontario.ca (assuming it's some sort of file conversion?).
@mikeburrell thanks for the offer, turned out that a simple change to the export format was needed. There are now range maps for both deglandi ss and stejnegeri.
I've also slightly tweaked the stejnegeri atlas - removed Iceland and expanded west a bit in central Russia.
sorry for the delay on this - this is committed https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/45717. I've been hard at work on some new curation tools/guidelines in the context of the Clements v19 update that will try to make curating a bit more manageable - more soon.
Clements 2018 update split into 2 full species:
Velvet Scoter (M. fusca) which will be the European observations
White-winged Scoter (M. deglandi) will be the North American observations
M. fusca stejngeri is placed under M. deglandi.
Because birds are a locked taxa update can not be applied.